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11:12 am December 10, 2009
| timber
| | Sault Ste Marie | |
| posts 62 | |
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I've talked to several road-based outfitters who all say there is lots of land and lakes to be shared by everyone including the public which owns the land, they say their business opportunities and the opportunity to expand are being stifled and smothered because just a few remote-based outfitters have a virtual MNR managed monopoly over thousands of our best lakes. That their clients, like the public are being subjected to heavy fines etc if they venture onto some of these lakes which are 30 or more km long…simply "to promote remote tourism values" . These remote tourism values according to a NOTO document means being able to charge up to three times more than their road-based counterparts.
I'd like to hear more on this issue.
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6:12 pm January 5, 2010
| Username
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| posts 3 | |
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http://crownland.org/blog/wp-c…..rategy.pdf
The link above is a document from NOTO that outlines how they want to restrict access to remote lakes. Every angler and hunter should read this document. NOTO is organized and funded and are taking away our rights to access our own land. Until we get funded and organized we are going to continue to lose more of our lands.
I just learned of this website a few days ago. I plan on telling everybody I know about it. Everybody else should do the same.
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9:10 pm January 5, 2010
| timber
| | Sault Ste Marie | |
| posts 62 | |
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Hey username, if you liked that one then check this one out, especially chapter 3.0 to 3.4, pages 12 to 19, paying close attention to page 18, left hand column where the MNR says it may be necessary to tell the public the access restrictions are to protect the natural resources,( in my book thats called lying). http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/STEL0…..179112.pdf.
See all the TIPs where the MNR describes how to tear up roads & bridges, even offers advice on how to word signs….all this, if according to the beginning of 3.0, an outfitter communicates to the MNR that he or she needs remoteness.
Under acknowlegements you'll see where no members of the public were present…and the MNR says they have not conspired behind the public's back, that there have been no back room deals with NOTO.
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7:29 pm February 9, 2010
| river rocker
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| posts 3 | |
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Username said:
http://crownland.org/blog/wp-c…..rategy.pdf
The link above is a document from NOTO that outlines how they want to restrict access to remote lakes. Every angler and hunter should read this document. NOTO is organized and funded and are taking away our rights to access our own land. Until we get funded and organized we are going to continue to lose more of our lands.
I just learned of this website a few days ago. I plan on telling everybody I know about it. Everybody else should do the same.
What business has NOTO got making policy recomendations to our provincial government..this document outlines how a small group of individuals would basically control our access to our own resources..this can't be legal…"Doesn't NOTO have a rather large and Glaring Conflict of Interest here"?
We need the provincial governments ear on issues like this and we need someone to ensure fairness and accountability for public resource access and use..this has gotten way out of hand.
NOTO is partly funded by the Ontario Ministry of Tourism Culture and Recreation..now isn't that interesting our tax dollars being used by private groups to deny us all .."access to our own Crown Resources"… something really stinks to high heaven here !
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7:59 pm February 9, 2010
| river rocker
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| posts 3 | |
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timber said:
I've talked to several road-based outfitters who all say there is lots of land and lakes to be shared by everyone including the public which owns the land, they say their business opportunities and the opportunity to expand are being stifled and smothered because just a few remote-based outfitters have a virtual MNR managed monopoly over thousands of our best lakes. That their clients, like the public are being subjected to heavy fines etc if they venture onto some of these lakes which are 30 or more km long…simply "to promote remote tourism values" . These remote tourism values according to a NOTO document means being able to charge up to three times more than their road-based counterparts.
I'd like to hear more on this issue.
Most of this crap started in the early 1980's in the Wawa District with the developement of the Wawa Dist Tourism Strategy then it was revamped and included in the Wawa Dist DLUG later. The "Tourism Amendment" to the (Wawa DLUG) district landuse guidelines in itself was larger than the entire DLUG. Do you remember "Lands for Life" from Mr Mike Harris well thats when alot of this tourism monopoly really took off.
There was a very large and influential Tourism presence around the living legacy round table meetings that went from town to town and after they helped the harris government push threw the lands for life initiative they reeped the rewards.
The Ontario living legacy document that the Tourism folks help craft had all kinds of protectionist measures in it that would allow them to protect there investments and businesses by "Protecting Tourism Values" in Forest Management Plans ..Resource Extraction Plans Mining..Recreation Management Plans…ect..ect..
At the same time this was happening(Living Legacy) the Tourism Folks even helped to craft an entire Tourism Policy for the Ontario government "Management Guidelines for Resource Based Tourism in Ontario" in which they got the right to basically control planning of our resources with the forest companies with the blessing of our provincial government. "Prior to that being in place the Tourism people could basically hold up every single Forest Management Plan in the province by requesting that the plans be "bumped up" until they got what they wanted.
Not what was best for all concerned …"What They Wanted". Whats wrong with this picture?
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8:00 am February 13, 2010
| timber
| | Sault Ste Marie | |
| posts 62 | |
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River Rocker, you're right on the money with your comments but the origin dates back past the Harris period to the NDP , this was brought to our attention by our friends from Dubreuilville. Wildman's signature has turned up on some related documents and a letter to the editor from that period shows he didn't support the public interest on this issue.
This isn't to deflect any blame from the PCs or Liberals for their part in this nonsense. Neither the best interests of the public or legislated law were even remotely considered by any of the three governing parties.
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3:26 am February 28, 2011
| Mike Bowen
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I recently read a post reguarding restricted access to " Patter Lake" just over the Witchdoctor bridge and up the Eileen Lake Road. I was furious with the MNR and the Tourist Outfitters strong arm policy preventing us from accessing lakes we ve fished for years. Last year I brought my son to this lake only to be confronted by 3 americans that we were tresspassing, had no right to be there and they were told by the tourist outfitter they had exclusive fishing rights to that lake because they had paid 1500.00 each to fly in. We promptly left. The next day I phoned the local MNR and spoke to a senior CO reguarding this issue. I explained to him that I was not accessing the lake directly with a motorised vehicle.In fact we rode my 4 wheeler in from the Domtar Rd. past Eileen Lake, past Coppin Lake as far as the moose swamp. From there , with full mosquito netting, we paddled my canoe accross this swamp, carried my canoe approx. 100 yds. and put it into the creek accessing Patter Lake. I also explained that we did not want to break any laws and did we have the right to fish that lake. He explained to me that we had every right to fish that lake and that the only reason the sign was put up on the Eileen Lake Rd. to begin with was to make it more difficult for the public to access this lake. I appreciate his fairness as there are so many old and new laws out there that it is almost impossible to be abreast of them all and he could very easily have told me that this was an offense but he didn't. In the future I plan to fish this lake often as the fishing is phenominal with the knowledge that in doing so we break no laws and at the end of each trip the wilderness is left as we found it. I have hunted and fished this area for over 50 years. My grandfather was a CO in this area for many years. Life is changing. Some of us enjoy the city life and some of us enjoy the wilderness. More people today I think want to get out of the crime ridden cities and give their kids a chance to grow up with some values enjoying all that the great outdoors has to offer. I feel that the tourist outfitters have a great service but if their resorts are not remote enough to eventually be hindered with logging roads or our ever growing population infringing on their " QUIET TIME" they need to suck it up. Those are the choices they made and no business is guaranteed forever. This land is not theirs it is OURS. Thousands of people have had businesses that have failed for various reasons and have moved on. They did not cry to the government for subsidies or restricted road access. To the ones doing this SHAME ON YOU.
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3:41 pm April 16, 2012
| higrader
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Mike
First account incidences like your are what OntORA needs on file.
If I can make a suggestion, send in a letter to OntORA with what you said, because abuses like these are what's happening and it's going to get worse with this "new management strategy" the MNR are implementing.
If OntORA can document a pile of these, and I'm sure they are out there, then eventually, it will be ammunition they can use for the cause.
Let's not forget… "Your's to Discover" right?
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